cheat ????

where is the problem, the Fool and Flanders gives all information

Screen:
real IP
tracert

about the araQ server:


I filmed truth.

Also true that Fool only spec.

Also true booth drivers have the same adress.

Also true that fool speaked at same time while flanders run.


So i know for alot of u that won't prove nothing. I know all of u will say 2 pc's at same house a freind of fool speaking in another pc... for me i understand your doubts.

Also understand fool for no wanting to race cause is forcing him to race while he don't wanna to.

As far as i go i have no reasons to belivie that any of this is true.

I can put the video up to see, if u guys want also i can put the screnshots i know don't prove anything for the most ceptics.

kikers wrote:

where is the problem, the Fool and Flanders gives all information

Screen:
real IP
tracert

what are you even asking?

your 'real ip' is determined by your router.... this is not a unique number either.....


even if they did this - and they were different ip, it doesn't prove anything, just like it doesn't prove anything if they are the same.

bottom line - people will believe what they wish to believe. is flanders a second account? possibly - he is unknown to most and is very quick.

with all due respect to araQ, if fool were going to join another team under a second name, surely he would choose one that was more likely to win the competition, araQ are a good team, but even with 'flanders' they will probably not win. unless we send someone to each house and make them play online together while being watched there is no way to definitely prove or disprove the idea.

fool is an ATR admin and a competition admin, he has put a lot of work into making this competition run - MONTHS of work... why would he risk screwing all of that up - he is busy enough helping run the comp, now he is also expected to race for two teams? while atr is also in LD and UDT?!

you people are insane!

ok listen up hurricane

i found something weird and asked if this is a cheat

then you and ventil ask me if i can send the screens i got what i did(ventil even tell here"its not allowed")

i did not even spoke of any names at that time it is you that decide to tell who it was and make it public after i wrote i was gonna publish it because of your weird answer i got

you tell me i find always a obstacle on any solution you guys propose but i only tell you what could happen (you gotta think of all the possible things that can happen)

and like i told you guys earlier you are the "admins" you guys decide

but my question is now what if it you guys find something weird like this? what would happen then?? i think the same reaction like me no???

SO SORRY IF I WANNA KEEP THIS GAME CLEAN

and if i am wrong (what still not is proven & also not proven that i am right) then i will apologize to the concern players and admins

i don't think anyone objects to the matter being brought up.

i'm not an admin here so i can only offer my opinion.

but i don't see how it's possible to resolve the query.

several people have said they've seen the two players on at the same time - other people say this is a trick.

if it were a member of your team and you knew him well and knew in your heart he wouldn't do something like that - you would understand the need people feel to find proof, but you would also do your best to help them understand the accused.

i don't see any way to prove things to everyone

And why are Fool and Flanders not give information?

herbie wrote:

i did not even spoke of any names at that time it is you that decide to tell who it was and make it public after i wrote i was gonna publish it because of your weird answer i got

Dude, what weird answer are you talking about????? I want these things cleared out just like you do!!!!

herbie wrote:

you tell me i find always a obstacle on any solution you guys propose but i only tell you what could happen (you gotta think of all the possible things that can happen)

I don't care what happens next, I just want to see this over because I am 100% sure it's not true. It's the same thing as we would be accusing Duffarn or Matteo of hackers... it just doesn't make sense to us and to a lot of people in the TM Community.

Also, I don't appreciatte the jokes people did in this topic and some keep doing. It's just disrespectful. I thought TM Community was more mature than this, but it isn't. People want things solved in 5 minutes without giving the right of the accused ones to defend themselves.

I am really disappointed at some people and other teams behaviour, from which I had a big consideration and admiration.

But anyway, I will do my job as Admin here, of course. We are discussing what to do next, so we'll keep all players informed of the decisions to be taken shortly.

@ Kikers: I'm done with all your questions, it's like 10 questions an hour about the same thing. Or you learn to wait for a decision or you will be talking to the walls from now on. Be respectful, I already said we are talking about it.

Hurricane wrote:

@ Kikers: I'm done with all your questions, it's like 10 questions an hour about the same thing. Or you learn to wait for a decision or you will be talking to the walls from now on. Be respectful, I already said we are talking about it.

I am not asking you Admins, I am ask Fool to give me the information.
If he nothing to hide, then it can be done in five minutes

I've already told you, i wanted to race, flanders doesn't want to. He doesn't want to do as others say apparently, and i'm now gonna use his words "I prefer to kick some dos ass next match". I cant force him to play, no one can.

As delrio said, we've been on the same server driving/talking several times. Well, more i can't do now.

Fool wrote:

I've already told you, i wanted to race, flanders doesn't want to. He doesn't want to do as others say apparently, and i'm now gonna use his words "I prefer to kick some dos ass next match". I cant force him to play, no one can.

As delrio said, we've been on the same server driving/talking several times. Well, more i can't do now.

LOL

Of course you do not want to run against themselves

Please give me info
ip
tracert
ipconfig /all

ps.

And I do not care who wins DOS or AraQ

It's not that hard to prove that they're not the same person with just joining servers at the same time...

Awe 1 (real account)

- opens TM United
- joins server
- goes spec
- writes something in chat, but doesn't press enter

Awe 2 (fake account)

- opens TM nations
- joins same server
- plays


then the "hard" part...
Awe 2 plays, switches window (Alt Tab), press enter (so the before written text shows up), switches window again and continue playing...
It's even possible playing in 1 server with more than just 2 accounts since you can open TMU more than just once!
Just an idea to think about...

There's no chance this is a real account, and i think about 90% of all the guys are sure that it's one of the top players like Fool, Bepino (anybody remembers the Ginodi case?) or anyone else!
Ah and thanks for switching back to english, i was feeling a bit uncomfortable with all the french

Here's a joke to lighten all of you up

A woman gets on a bus with her baby. The bus driver says: ''Ugh, that's the ugliest baby I've ever seen!''
The woman walks to the rear of the bus and sits down, fuming. She says to a man next to her: ''The driver just insulted me!''
The man says: ''You go up there and tell him off. Go on, I'll hold your monkey for you.''

@awesome

well so how could they do that with flanders in a midle of a run?

we saw that a few times i was specing flandens he was driving and fool talked...

vennike wrote:

Here's a joke to lighten all of you up

A woman gets on a bus with her baby. The bus driver says: ''Ugh, that's the ugliest baby I've ever seen!''
The woman walks to the rear of the bus and sits down, fuming. She says to a man next to her: ''The driver just insulted me!''
The man says: ''You go up there and tell him off. Go on, I'll hold your monkey for you.''

hahahahahahahahhahaha
need to remember that one xD

scorpx wrote:

@awesome

well so how could they do that with flanders in a midle of a run?

we saw that a few times i was specing flandens he was driving and fool talked...

Maybe, Fool have two computers ..

Yup, I do. problem is 1 is 3 1/2 hours of traveling away, at my parents' home

maybe fool & flanders race together in 1/2 final, so dont worry kikers

I just can't resist sticking my spoon into this discussion so here's my two cents:

- IP locators/tracers are not to be trusted as they are not accurate. They most likely trace the IP to the closest data center/hub in your city/town. Anything further than that may be considered a breach of privacy in some countries. So do not trust them blindly!
- Teaching to drive -> bullshit. No one learns to be an alien in a matter of months even if someone teaches them, because it's about more than just driving lines or usage of brake and throttle. It's about nerves and confidence as well. There are just too many factors to ignore to believe in this current rate we're getting all these superb drivers popping like mushrooms in rain. If you do learn how to drive like an alien in weeks or a couple of months... for fuck sake, go to Harvard. You clearly got some talents!

Be it gearbox cheating or multi-accounts, I just wish these people to leave the dirt community immediately because it takes the fun out of the whole thing and actually has made me to consider leaving the scene in the past couple of months.

And since we're on topic, Flanders isn't the only one who has made these incredible becoming-an-alien-driver transformations. I'm not pointing fingers directly at anyone, but... well you know who you are. I suspect double, triple or who knows how many accounts with few individuals... BUT it's hard to prove unless you're at the end of organizing something. For regular drivers like myself, I don't have the means to find that out without digging deeper. But I do find it rather funny when Scorpx said just yesterday that Flanders played a few years ago and just started playing again. And on page 3 he says that Flanders played a year ago... I'm so confused.

As for the proof Hurricane is looking for, as are many of us. I get his point of view. I think we all would in his shoes. If I heard MatrimC (whom I've known since I started since we started together) was blamed for having another account, nevermind that he's actually not an alien driver, I would certainly suspect the accusations and try to find out the truth instead of just beating the shit out of him over the internet
As it has been mentioned earlier here, we did have this one certain Cyborg, who was caught cheating a while back. Back then we did hear about it from someone else first and then we started to investigate if these allegations were true. After we got the proof, we did take action and kicked him from the team. He was one of our very top drivers from the beginning so it was rather hard, but we didn't know him and therefore the decision was easy. I just hope this will not be the bottleneck for ATR if it turns out that Fool has been fooling us all along...

However, I don't know Fool that well, but I have been on the tracks with him a few times and although I've my faith in him telling the truth... I'd like to see some hard cold facts

@Awe, but if you ask them to drive at the same time. Like really race against each other, it won't be that easy

Ugh, i've spoken.

True Daigle, and Cyborg later tried to enter ATR as Wally(T), which was rejected for same reasons (gearbox hack among other hacks). That was way easier to proof as we just needed a replay from him.



(I don't know why exactly I need to point this is a joke, but..... it's a joke.)

@daigle

ya i though was a few more then a year but after u asked me in the server i went and look at the post of recruit of fland here is a copy past:

"Since when do you play at TM?: About a year I think - summer 2011 - got bored after half a year and had a break.. but now I'm back!"

that was why i sayed a year ago on the last post.

Trust me daigle i am seeking the true too u know me well enought to know araQ and me are a responsable and respected team in TM.

But as a i sayed so far there aren't enought proves to say if they are or not the same person!

Daigle wrote:

- IP locators/tracers are not to be trusted as they are not accurate. They most likely trace the IP to the closest data center/hub in your city/town. Anything further than that may be considered a breach of privacy in some countries. So do not trust them blindly!
.

ok I agree
But the Fool in the Netherlands, and Flanders is in Belgium

But why FooL not give info on real IP?

Daigle wrote:

@Awe, but if you ask them to drive at the same time. Like really race against each other, it won't be that easy

That's right my dear Daigle! And for your post!

at hurricane nice joke xD

scorpx wrote:

ya i though was a few more then a year but after u asked me in the server i went and look at the post of recruit of fland here is a copy past:

"Since when do you play at TM?: About a year I think - summer 2011 - got bored after half a year and had a break.. but now I'm back!"

that was why i sayed a year ago on the last post.

If this doesn't make anyone's bells ring, I don't know what will... Oh dear geez. Flanders, if you're reading this... Go to Harvard or some other IVY school. You clearly have some talent to become the next Einstein or whatever. I'm not worthy of you to compare anyone to you.

scorpx wrote:

Trust me daigle i am seeking the true too u know me well enought to know araQ and me are a responsable and respected team in TM.

But as a i sayed so far there aren't enought proves to say if they are or not the same person!

With all due respect... I must admit that in these past months my belief in ANYONE'S honor has been "shaky" to say the least. We've seen so many cheaters, bullshitters and whatnot that I'm not sure if I'd trust even all my teammates unless I knew them face to face. You can ask Fool too, Flanders is supposed to be someone he knows. And here they are being crucified.

What I mean is that I know you from the game, I've had fun playing with you but on a personal level I don't know you more than I know matze, nils, mungos, Barack Obama or the Loch Ness monster.

lol Daigle, let's not exaggerate. I mean, ofc we all saw Flanders times during Qualifications, but what do you know about him in a Rounds match? Past tell us that good TA drivers are not necessarily amazing Rounds drivers and vice-versa. I'm not saying this is the case with Flanders or Fool (because I haven't even seen Flanders playing yet), but it's a fact.

But yes, I also think it is barely impossible that a dirt star appears like this. Several options can be considered here, but I doubt any of them would actually satisfy us all.

At this moment, having them playing together is the best option we get, and if that isn't achieved I'm afraid the mystery will remain. Ofc that in the past several other players did this (used other accounts), I can even remember some teams that did it against us in matches. It's just that, in this specific case, I don't see any reason for Fool wanting to be Flanders or vice-versa, it's just pointless.