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la pampa



Messages : 36
Date d'inscription : 2012-04-11

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 7:36

I really didn't want to comment again but this is more than a TRC issue......your comp is great and is running smoothly, you guys are doing a good job. This will not effect the final out come either.

This doesn't look bad on ATR or ARA Q. I will not lose any respect for the teams/players over this. You cant control what people do in any team or the internet.

As there will always be the same issue arise in future comps if nothing is done.

I believe fool and flanders should race this weekend......If they have nothing at all to hide let them race.....Make both matches at the same time.

If they are truly innocent of all of this.....they will both show up....and perform like they normally do. If they dont.....it makes your decision very easy to make.

It is that simple, if we see that happen and people will shut up im sure.......there is a massive amount of doubt here guys. And as you can tell this is a TM wide issue...to say its just your admins that can resolve this is somewhat unfair on the community.

We all don't need to fight over this. Peace Razz
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Avalanche
Admin


Messages : 987
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-18
Age : 24
Localisation : New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 8:40

primarily this is an issue that affects TRC Competition and teams Araq/ATR. The TRC admins working with Araq leaders covers all this.

Also i have said this many times already. Getting them to race at the same time doesnt solve anything that hasnt already been solved. With 15 witnesses we saw flanders drive while fool answered questions at the same time, therefore we have established that both profiles were active at the same time.
Them racing together solves no more than is already done (which we know the outcome)

Yes this does affect the whole community, I am not denying that. The best way forward is to let fool and flanders deal with only a few people otherwise it is just too hard on them. So let that be the araq leaders and atr admins.

They WILL show their results/findings at a later stage, AND how they got to that. IF people are not satisfied with that on a personal level then after this is the time to ask fool and flanders their own questions.


just have a little patience everyone
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Daigle



Messages : 17
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-22

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 8:48

ATR Avalanche wrote:
With 15 witnesses we saw flanders drive while fool answered questions at the same time, therefore we have established that both profiles were active at the same time.
When did this happen and where?
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kikers



Messages : 35
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-09

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 8:51

Daigle wrote:
ATR Avalanche wrote:
With 15 witnesses we saw flanders drive while fool answered questions at the same time, therefore we have established that both profiles were active at the same time.
When did this happen and where?


scorpx

Messages: 16
Date d'inscription: 2012-05-03

Subject: Re: cheat ???? Yesterday at 18:01
about the araQ server:

I filmed truth.

Also true that Fool only spec.

Also true booth drivers have the same adress.

Also true that fool speaked at same time while flanders run.


So i know for alot of u that won't prove nothing. I know all of u will say 2 pc's at same house a freind of fool speaking in another pc... for me i understand your doubts.

Also understand fool for no wanting to race cause is forcing him to race while he don't wanna to.

As far as i go i have no reasons to belivie that any of this is true.

I can put the video up to see, if u guys want also i can put the screnshots i know don't prove anything for the most ceptics.
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tombuilder



Messages : 7
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-18

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 8:53

Here f.e. daigle
http://www.tm-tube.com/video/27137/fool+and+Flanders

If he really is flanders it must be a hard time for him controlling both accounts at same time. But, of course, not impossible as long as both are not "driving" at the same time! So, as said, no proof at all! Have fun discussing Wink


Last edited by tombuilder on Thu 21 Jun - 9:02; edited 1 time in total
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Avalanche
Admin


Messages : 987
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-18
Age : 24
Localisation : New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 9:00

@ daigle

it was on that IMT server (araq competition) last night (my time lol) there were a couple of ddrs, 4ish atrs 4ish araq and about 3ish nwts present. For about 40 minutes we were all there interacting with both
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Daigle



Messages : 17
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-22

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 9:14

I just saw the video.

@Fool, why on earth didn't you drive when you were given the chance to prove everyone wrong? And don't give me any pride bullshit because all you had to do was give a few seconds of your time to drive at the same time.

I started reading the chat a bit closer and checking when Flanders was driving... Can't argue that this all just seems too evident to be ignored in a case against you.

With the IP proof and all, I'm sticking to my guns that Fool and Flanders are one and the same. You had the chance to prove everyone wrong, but you didn't use it.

I'm very disappointed.
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Avalanche
Admin


Messages : 987
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-18
Age : 24
Localisation : New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 9:20

everyone is entitled to their opinion daigle, but just wait untill the "investigators" come back with a result


@everyone, plx remember that in any type of law/rule whatsoever, every player is innocent untill 100% proven guilty
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kikers



Messages : 35
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-09

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 9:32

me too saw video Smile

And:
I have two computers at home: one desktop pc and one laptop

In view its video:
Fool always written when Flanders has started a little ride.
Fool never write twice when drive Flanders

So long as Flanders starts to drive, Fool has three seconds to write the text to the second computer and after Flanders start drive, after a few seconds Fool only need just press Enter in second PC


Sorry (google translate)
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tombuilder



Messages : 7
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-18

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 9:43

I just don`t understand why he should do that?
Not enough appreciation? Too much free time? Bored? Wants to take over the world?
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itachi



Messages : 8
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-11

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 10:22

Nice video man, now we also see how they talk about us, "bugger them" from an ATR member???????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you the noob man, good one.

haha i also see... everytime fool types something, flanders messes up, so ya, enough said and seen...


Last edited by itachi on Thu 21 Jun - 10:31; edited 1 time in total
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Turbo TJ

avatar

Messages : 237
Date d'inscription : 2012-03-25
Age : 46
Localisation : Drachten, The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 10:26

Even if this is true your guys/girls making this a bigger problem then it is.
You all call it a cheat but I don't think that is the case, just a dom mistake mabye.
You are threating this as was it the end off the world, common there are wurs things then this.
So let the ATR admins sort this out and keep calm.






Last edited by Turbo TJ on Thu 21 Jun - 10:31; edited 1 time in total
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Ibiza



Messages : 6
Date d'inscription : 2012-06-20

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 10:27

by hurrican
"Fool and Flanders are not friends, They Know Each Other only. Somewhere If I Told They Were friends, my bad. Fool Told Me The Same Has Worked Flanders He Did up in a summer job THEY had."

FLANDERS How can it have a level of PGM in such a short time??

Fool know if just a summer job how he has done for him explained in 128 days the games and be one of the best. (As he are not friends?)

He was doing a reverse FLANDERS has managed trouvers are IP address to put the reputation of the ground FOOL. by chance.


I respect the ATR and Araq !
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mvilks



Messages : 4
Date d'inscription : 2012-04-13

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 10:29

can dutch speak french?
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Avalanche
Admin


Messages : 987
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-18
Age : 24
Localisation : New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 10:42

bloody hell guys!

I have sad this many times but i obviously have to repeat it.

IT IS POSSIBLE FOR FLANDERS TO BE THIS GOOD AFTER A SHORT PERIOD
- Any person who has REAL history will have already seen this once before. Jezze was even more insane than flanders is after about the same time. So SHUT UP about him learning skills so quick it is possible
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kikers



Messages : 35
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-09

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 10:46

i send msg Flanders in Araq forums:

please give me Info
real IP
tracert 195.122.13.18
ipconfig /all



msg me from Flanders:

you just fuck off, fucking bloody hound.
just go die somewhere in ur sleep.
I won't let myself be commanded around bij some fucking dos asshole
Unlucky for fool, but at the fucking moment i don't even fucking care at all
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itachi



Messages : 8
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-11

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 10:49

well if he doesnt wanna give info to anyone then there is something going on, kick this fucking poes out from the comp!!!!!!!!!!!

and why swear my team you noob, we didnt say anything about your team ffs
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Ibiza



Messages : 6
Date d'inscription : 2012-06-20

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 10:52

Why insult?

Jezze lurn to play during less than 128 days ? Tomorrow , we'll become PGM in 1 day?
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Arba



Messages : 2
Date d'inscription : 2012-06-07

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 10:55

tombuilder wrote:
Here f.e. daigle
http://www.tm-tube.com/video/27137/fool+and+Flanders

If he really is flanders it must be a hard time for him controlling both accounts at same time. But, of course, not impossible as long as both are not "driving" at the same time! So, as said, no proof at all! Have fun discussing Wink




Wachting this video i have a lot of doubts, and i want to explain it!!


First of all, Fool post always after a break by Flanders, Fool never send two messages at the same time while Flanders is running, only one message for each run by Flanders and in my opinion this is strange.

In the first track at the minutes 0.57 and 1.33 fool write two messages and in the both times Flanders is in the same place, before the hill.
At the minutes 3.33 and 3.45 Fool wrtite two message, while Flanders is at the start.
Fool Post other two message in the first track, while Flanders is in other place.

In the second track at minutes 6.58, 7.48, 9.36, 10.52, 12 56 fool post five messages while flanders is in the same place, and at minutes 9.15, 11.08, 11.44, 11.23, 12.16 the position of flanders is the same, and in this case the position of flanders is near the position at minutes 6.58, 7.48, 9.36, 10.52, 12 56. Fool post ALWAYS in the first 12 second while Flanders is driving....

Minutes 8.27, 8.46 fool write a messages while flanders is at the start.


This is what i can see watching this video.,
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Avalanche
Admin


Messages : 987
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-18
Age : 24
Localisation : New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 11:01

@ Itachii - Without a 100% verdict the admins will not do anything untill they have the 100% proof. Untill then calm down no one has insulted any whole TEAM (flanders used DOS as an adjective to describe kikers)
- yes "Bugger them" was used. But also at the start of the video and out of context for which you cannot see in the video.
so please itachi if you dont have constructive things to say then SHUT UP, BE PATIENT and WAIT for the result!

@ ibiza - Yea jezze was absolutely insane, if i remember correctly he only took about 4-5 months which is similar to 128 days.

@ arba - thanks for your input. It is constructive and helpful (nice to see this kind of message for a change)
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itachi



Messages : 8
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-11

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 11:21

HAHAHAHAHA cool story ava
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Arba



Messages : 2
Date d'inscription : 2012-06-07

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 11:36

ATR Avalanche wrote:

@ arba - thanks for your input. It is constructive and helpful (nice to see this kind of message for a change)

Sry if you don't like what i wrote, but is what i can see watching the video.

I'm sorry for everything I saw in this 3d, I hope he can prove that it is all a mistake, I am correct in everything I do.

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nico~17~



Messages : 7
Date d'inscription : 2012-03-27

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 11:41

And if there are many words for nothing

Will decisions be taken as Yes or No. 2 players just are grilled so what's the play Trackmania and race if it is to cheat.

Nico
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Avalanche
Admin


Messages : 987
Date d'inscription : 2012-05-18
Age : 24
Localisation : New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 11:50

Arba wrote:
ATR Avalanche wrote:

@ arba - thanks for your input. It is constructive and helpful (nice to see this kind of message for a change)

Sry if you don't like what i wrote, but is what i can see watching the video.

I'm sorry for everything I saw in this 3d, I hope he can prove that it is all a mistake, I am correct in everything I do.


lol arba you misunderstand my meaning.

I like what you wrote, it is based on observation and is GOOD for the discussion.

People like itachi are screwing it up
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mjl09



Messages : 509
Date d'inscription : 2012-02-09
Age : 39

PostSubject: Re: cheat ????   Thu 21 Jun - 11:54

itachi wrote:
Nice video man, now we also see how they talk about us, "bugger them" from an ATR member???????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you the noob man, good one.

OK - well "bugger them" did not just come from an ATR member it came from ME an ATR admin and a TRC admin - and it is a comment that WILL NOT be retracted.

It was made after a comment saying if the TM dirt community is so stubborn - well considering the events In TRC to date where Flanders has been pursued as a cheater with allegations of using a gear hack.
Everyone deserves a fair chance and they deserve not be put in a kangaroo court so to speak where many people have seemingly already made the decision of guilt and are ready to send them in front of the firing squad.


Well guess what he did not use a gear hack. How do i know ? - because i were one of the ones who investigated.
So how do i know what to look for ? Well as has already been raised ATR had a driver on test and a replay was encountered that did not just seem right.
After a bit of research on the internet a download location for this gear hack was found - and i will readily admit i installed it in my computer and tried it in trackmania.

SHOCK, Horror an ATR Admin used a gear hack and admits it publically. Well yes i did - i used it offline only and i used it on one of my own tracks and this fact was admitted publicly 6 months ago when it was done. Where you might ask - well in the competition admin section of tmdirt.com that is where. It was accompanied by the video below which features two cars - both of them are me driving - one using the gear hack the other not. The result on a one minute track about one second faster without any effort. The tell tale signs being the high revving engine sound - basically continuously sitting on the redline. Some players using this hack may seek to hide it with custom engine sounds - but disabling the custom skins and viewing with standard engine sound it is immediately apparent.




Continued accusations and half truths are not doing anyone any good. And unfortunately a little bit of knowledge in the hands of those eager to throw mud also does not help. The world of the internet and IP addresses are not straightforward topics.

On the internet current IP addresses largely conform to what is called the IPV4 standard and guess what on February 3, 2011 the number of addresses available via IPV4 were all used up (of the order of 4294967296 addresses).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4

The next move is to IPV6 which offers far more unique addresses - approximately 3.4×10 ^38
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6

From an internet service provider (ISP) you are likely to either have a static IP address or a dynamic IP address. A static address is in principle just that - it stays constant. A dynamic address changes with time and may be assigned on as needed basis - ie when you make a new connection to the internet it is given one address out of a list of available addresses with your ISP. Even a static address may change over time - ie you may be able to request a new one from your isp.

Whilst your computer will have an IP address (or more specifically every network interface card in your PC could have an IP address in most cases this is only going to be a local IP address and is not what your IP address is reported as when your are on the internet. If available that address will be what is most likely the IP address of your modem or router.

Point being one of the items requested by kikers was ipconfig /all which will list all the IP addresses for network interface cards installed in the computer the command is run on. But these are only likely to be local addresses so pointless (most likely they will be address like 192.168.1.xxx which is one of the defaults for local addresses)

There are a number of ways that people can "appear" to have the same ip address.
One is as a result of use of proxy servers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_server
Secondly is the result of Network Address Translation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAT

As to other matters - Trackmania does not exist exclusively online. In fact i played it on and off for maybe two years before i ever played it on the internet.
There are many reasons players may not be playing online.
I know Avalanche went to university in a different area - he didnt have online access to TM at the time.
Does it mean he didnt play TM not necessarily - with just access to webages you can still go to TMX and download tracks to play against and you have times there to try and beat in terms of dedis and uploaded times of other players.

I know of others that have gone to other schools and found that because of rules and firewalls in place that TM is unavailable or at least heavily restricted in availability.
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cheat ????
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